Harsh Mander came into prominence after Gujarat genocide of 2002, he left his IAS job to work full time for peace and justice. He is the head of ‘Aman Biradari’ which work for the communal harmony in India. In an exclusive interview with IndianMuslims.info he encouraged people of faith to use religion for the benefit it can bring to humanity and not let it be hijacked for hatred.

IndianMuslims.info: How did the Gujarat of Gandhi ji become the Hindutva lab of Sangh Parivar in such a short amount of time?
Harsh Mander: It is one question that everyone asks, and it's a natural question to ask, and it's a very hard question to answer. Some people look at it in terms of Gujarati culture, some people look at it in terms of Economics, and it is also one of the most developed states, a state that benefited from Globalization. It had a very strong social and reform movement. People are vegetarian, alcohol is banned, and other things.

I have heard many generalization and explanation but somehow I am not convinced by these. The reality of Gujarat is also the untold stories of Gujarat, there are enormous numbers of people who have helped each other, both Hindus and Muslims; which far outnumbers the people who were involved in violence. This also makes it more complicated.

It was a very systematic process of manufacture of hatred that was undertaken in Gujarat. They had the longest period of uninterrupted BJP rule. It is a cliché to say that it was 'Hindutva Labaratory' but I think it really was a laboratory. In less than two decades, it has been able to manufacture hatred and create levels of hate and distrust. They have created myths about how Muslims are.

Of the Muslim communities in different parts of India, probably the most culturally integrated are also the Gujaratis. I found that most Gujarati Muslims prefer communicating in Gujarati language, calling each other ‘bhai’ and ‘ben’.

We can't say its wealth because by and large Muslims are down and out, so it's not jealousy. No explanation seems to work except that it was a systematic manufacture of hatred.

IMI: The interim report by the PM High level committee says that there is a separation between Hindu and Muslim localities. How widespread is this situation?
HM: It's almost total. The most commonly used English word in Gujarat today is 'border'. People refer to the 'border' as the divider between Hindu and Muslim parts of the village. Where violence took place the ghettoization is extreme but even those areas that escaped the violence are affected by this. This is their biggest success, since the two communities will grow up never meeting each other.

I think Ehsan Jafri was a hero to secularism, because he continued to live in the Hindu majority area. I have been told that he was repeatedly advised to move, but he refused on the grounds that it will be against whatever he stood for, and he paid the ultimate price for that. Now how many people are willing to take his place?

So I think the ghettoization is very far advanced and is almost reaching completion. Even in villages, people have either not returned to their homes, are still living in camps or have moved in with their relatives. Where they have returned, one of the conditions has always been that they have to live separately.

IMI: Recently Indian Express reported that there is a system wide discrimination not just against Muslims, but also against the Dalits of Gujarat. What is the condition of the Dalits in the present day Gujarat?
HM: The level of untouchability is very high in Gujarat. They have separate eating facilities in schools, and different water source for the Dalits and other castes. These restrictions are quite wide spread in Gujarat and I think it is part of the same communal ideology that is expressed in different ways.

IMI: Do you think this Hindutva ideology is also being exported out to different parts of India?
HM: Wherever BJP has come to power on its own (without any coalition partner), there is a clear evidence that they are trying to advance the lessons of Gujarat, which is fear as a way of life for the minority communities. A part of me believes that a big massacre, like what happened in 2002, is not going to be repeated because they think that invites un-necessary international attention. They know that they can achieve the same goal by low intensity activities that no one pays much attention to.

There are villages in both Rajasthan and Madhya Pradesh that are documented, where an entire Muslim population has been driven out by fear. They are facing desecration of their places of worship, or restriction in practicing their religion; social boycotts are achieving the same result as they have in Gujarat.

IMI: What should be the process of reconciliation?
HM: We desire genuine reconciliation, which means a restoration of trust and relationship of affection. We believe that it can never happen in an environment of fear and surrender. You can't surrender into reconciliation; you need to have a space for forgiveness. People can forgive, only if they have the power to not forgive. That is why I believe the fight for justice has to proceed with the effort of reconciliation.

We need to find a large number of people from all communities who do not believe in the politics of hate. If there is a shakha of Bajrang Dal or RSS, then we need to have 'Aman Shakha' (Peace Group). Let young people gather, let's have some games, a place to meet, celebrate festivals together, and do some work in the schools. There needs to be alternative institutions which provide these services.

IMI: What is the India of the future that you envision?
HM: I want an India where people can follow what they believe, without any fear in their heart and their head held high, an India which starts caring about poverty, hunger and children on the street. I am told that every culture and every religion has a tradition which has made us care about the less privileged people.

I was told about a South Indian Hindu community, even till their grand father and grand mother's time, they would not eat until some hungry person shared in that food. Sometimes they remained hungry if they couldn't find any one share their food. This is one of the ways created by society to help people in need. Now all these have been institutionalized and reduced to rituals and are bereft of reaching out to the communities.

Tulsidas, who wrote 'Ram Charits Manas', was persecuted a gread deal by the Brahmins. In one of his dohas (couplets) he says to the Brahmins "do what you like to me, I will beg for my food and I will sleep in the Mosque." Since he spent lot of time in Ayodhya I would like to believe that he used to sleep in the Babri Masjid. Are there any Mosques today that are open to homeless people?

If people are using religion for hate, why don’t people of faith use it for what it was meant to be?